what is happening here??

*looks at comment section*
Why the hell am I not surprised?

@Yautja



I guarantee you, you wont get that answer, i have already explained how the process works multiple times for art, and i already make clear how dumb it would be to bring that request to a doctor, i have no clue to where you got such a dumb idea, but not only is bad it is also unecesary, there's no need for any of that.

If you are the one that is seeing something wrong, point it out visually with the tools that we have, it is simple, be specific and to the point.

And yes you are trash talking the drawing of the author, that's what you have been doing since your initial post, this has obviously nothing to do with me personally, how do you even got that impression that i was making this about me, when you are talking badly about the work of someone else?

@Doomroar
Yea, okay, this is just pointless. I probably should keep to my word and stop, but I'm going against my better judgement, hopefully for the last time.

Again, none of this changes my response. No amount of discourse will clarify my position or beliefs to you. I told you to ask that question because you seem to care more about this than I do and because even if I did ask it and got the answer I know I'd get, you'd dismiss it exactly as you are now. You seem far angrier than I do and far more invested. In either the position or proving me wrong, which it is, I don't know. I don't care enough about either to put in that much effort and the question itself effectuates my point. You wouldn't get an answer you like and even you'd dismiss it anyways. The way you've dismissed it and analyzed it just further highlights you not understanding my position. Pretending that I'm bullying you into doing my chores or something is disingenuous. This opinion or topic isn't that important to me, I'm not going to bother putting in that much effort. The only reason I've bothered entertaining this ridiculous conservation this far is because I had a positive opinion of you and thought it was fun, now it's a chore.

If you really think any of what I said was meant to be trash talk, you severely misunderstand me and my words far more than I thought and just further reinforce my perception that you could not misunderstand any of what I said more than you already do and are incapable of understanding it whatsoever in general. You're just as bad as I am, enjoy yourself. I'm done ruining my opinion of you.

@Yautja i told you the critique is inconsistent, asking someone to make a realistic 3D adaptation of a drawing in an anime style without re adapting the style is nonsense, because by definition they would have to adapt the drawing fixing the exaggerated proportions, and as an example i used her face, her face is not the main argument , the face is an example to let you know that just as the face would be adapted , so would be the everything else on the drawing, why would they have to adapt the drawing? first i already said this a while ago, and you ignored it, this drawing doesn't has the characteristics that would allow the making of a 3d map, it doesn't even has shadowing to make out deep, is a flat drawing, and is not based on solid geometric shapes, so they would have to redraw the drawing, second humans don't look anime so they would have to re draw that already redrawn 3D drawing and convert it onto a different style, i covered that 2 days ago, and explained how futile it all would be since by that point it wont be this drawing anymore, the face alone (this means that it applies to the rest of the drawing too) would have to drastically change.

But you ignored me thrice, and choose to focus on the face missing the point and dismissing the rest of the argument, man i even highlighted the parts on my quote, but i am the one angry here? despite you not being able to read what i am writing?

Listen, i told you to get specific, not really specific, really fucking specific, that is using the tools and the common language of counting heads that we both now have, and show me those deformations, it is simple as that, because i sincerely don't see what you see, you are saying that a woman with breast and ass that big is unnatural, that she has plastic surgery? i gave you a page that documents thousands of women with big natural curves, you saying that her limbs and neck are too thin for her body? i gave you a list of women that have enormous breast and are thin, but now you are saying that it is pointless because the drawing simply doesn't works, but you are not showing it, the only thing you have shown was that mess of an image filled with hands, which doesn't amounts for anything due to things already previously discussed here.

There's no point for me to do any of that, i already explained what would be the answer of going to an art expert, and you are taking it as if i the problem lies with me, when the process itself would make the endeavor pointless, and taking a drawing is to a doctor is even more pointless because it is an anime drawing what kind of world you live in? not only is the task dumb, the most a doctor can do is proximate it to a real life women, which do exist with said proportions and is something i already did, also the endeavor itself is dumb, just think of the scenario "some random guy on the internet says that there are some non specific and non highlighted aspects on this drawing that makes it an aberration, can you doctor point them out?" what kind of argument is that, making someone else go out and search for someone else to do your chores, man you are shameless, do it yourself back your own shit and show proof, put some work behind your trashtalk.

@Doomroar
My response remains entirely unchanged. You're straw-manning, this always was about her body as a whole and how unrealistic and inaccurate it is as a drawing and as a 3D person, not her facial features or the issues with manga art style, none of those listed women defy the constraints I listed. Saying something is not natural or not normal is not saying they don't exist at all.

I reiterate, again, I've never said women with similar features to her do not exist. I said she is unnatural, fake and disproportionate. I said women with all of her bodily features are not natural and would be disproportionate and anatomically inconsistent. Finding like 50 or even 50,000 examples of women of the 4 billion in the world with one or two of her unnatural features such as ridiculously unnatural boobs or ass do not prove your point. If anything it proves mine. It's unnatural, it looks strange.

Even if you find a literal copy of her in the real world, my point will stand, she will look unnatural, she'll be disproportionate, she'll be anatomically inconsistent. Finding 500 or 500,000 of women with big tits and asses that are actually anatomically consistent do not prove your point because I'm not arguing those women do not exist, I'm arguing she doesn't look like them, and that she's unnatural. There's a reason I compared her to surgical nightmares.

You're clearly too damn angry for me to bother talking to. I reiterate, again, go to an art subreddit, class or a doctor. Ask the question I listed. I know what answer you'll get, and you do too. I'm not bothering further than this. You need to chill out. I'm not going to argue with a person misrepresenting my position.

@Yautja



Again the point is, the entire critique you are making is inconsistent if you want to disregard the art style of one factor but held everything else accountable then you are either wasting your time or being hypocritical.

You keep saying that it can't be done, so clearly since you are not gonna do it here is a small list of women who have enormous curves and thin arms and legs, because you insist on their non existence:

Spoiler

So now you have to get really fucking specific if you want to continue this nonsense, first it was that her breast an ass were too big so she had to have fake breast an ass, then it was that her limbs are too thin, then what will it be next? what else will you pull out of your ass, because i am sure by now that you don't even know what exactly you are seeing wrong in here, because to begin with you compared her to Nicky Minaj whose body as plastic as it is doesn't even resembles this drawing from many angles, and their only forced common factor is that they have big breast and asses, but of course that is not the problem now, it is her arms and legs? but i am calling bullshit on that too, as i said before if that was the problem you would and should have started there but didn't, the ratio? also bullshit because you didn't even had a tool to measure a ratio to start with, and no point of comparison either.

@Doomroar
Dude, I've made my point, made the comparisons, and you even brought up actual art scaling pictures. If that didn't make it clear, nothing will. People don't naturally look like her. I'm not saying fat or curvy women don't exist, or that plastic surgery doesn't exist. You saying I have is a genuine straw-man this time and I'm not playing with this kind of bullshit, I see more than enough of it from actual morons on this website, I don't need it from you. I said women like her, with her unrealistic proportions and anatomical inconsistency don't exist naturally, that they're not normal. I said they're fake, they're plastic, they're unrealistic and I find them unnattracitve. Women like Kim K and such. The women on that list do not fit what I said nor what you claim I said.

I reiterate, if you're really this invested, take it to an actual place of art or anatomy. Don't try and use that BS excuse with me, I'm not stupid enough to buy it and you shouldn't be stupid enough to think that I would. I'm not talking about facial features. I'm talking about the head, arms, legs, chest and ass. I'm talking about anatomy and bodily proportions, I haven't once mentioned her facial features or traditional anime exaggeration. The entire time I've been talking about her proportions; how unnatural her anatomy is. Not her facial features. You're really starting to run away with these fallacies and I'm not going to bother and keep running after them.

Shitposting is one thing, but making genuinely fallacious arguments is bullshit I'm tired of. Take it to an art subreddit or a class, ask about her body specifically. Not her eyes, not her nose, not her lips, not her face, but her anatomy, her proportions, her legs, arms, head^{which is a lot different than a face}, neck, chest, ass and such, all in relation to each other. Not if they're possible individually or on a human body. That's not what I'm talking about. Ask if all those exact features are possible on one body. I'm not taking your bullshit excuse of "they'll give me an answer I don't like because it's anime". Take it to a fucking doctor for all I care. Go find a med-school weeb. Censor her face. Ask: "Is this body, not her facial features, possible? Is it anatomically consistent? Are her bodily proportions natural? If yes to any, is it possible without surgical intervention, body modification or deformities? Do any significant amount of women look like this naturally? Do any significant amount look like this unnaturally? What is the general ratio?" I know the answer you will get, and considering that bullshit excuse you tried to feed me, you probably do too. I'm not playing this game where you pretend I've said things I haven't or deflect with sophistry.

@Yautja Ok i already explained why this particular drawing wont work for that.

No it doesn't, because it is a minor mistake that not even you noticed until two dais ago, why not start from there if that was the whole point then? sure no one makes memes about arms and legs, but still, the question remains.

There's a bunch of humans that look closer to her, and a few that are fit and have big, huge, enormous breast and asses, and i gave you a link to a page that documents them by breast size, and you insist on saying that they don't exist, despite me giving you access to seeing otherwise, hell the page even conveniently documents if the women have had surgery or not.

If i were to do that and take that page to art experts i would get the same answer as for any other anime styled drawing of a woman, that it should be re adapted starting from the abnormal big anime eyes, the usually small forehead, the absence of nostrils, the minimal size of lips, etc, etc. In other words it wont prove much of anything since the adaptation would cover the flaws that come with the artistic genre, which in principle exaggerates some features while ignoring others, if you want to be pedantic and talk about realism in that sense... then her face alone and that of every other character on this manga and manga in general will look hyper deformed, and i don't think that's the point otherwise why make the critique in the first place?

@Doomroar
It's not a literal 1:1 comparison, obviously, but either way she's just fucked. Replicate her body in 3D, whether that be as a mannequin or person, she'll look strange af. Simply as a 2D drawing, she looks strange af.

Comparing it to the ridiculous size of the rest of her body, yes it does break the drawing. That's my point. She's an anatomical and proportional nightmare.

I know that, and I still think it proves my point more. Her arms and bottom legs are of a fit person and the rest is a mangafied amalgamation of the silicon and fat demons I listed.

It's a relative unit of measurement by both definition and context. Obviously it's not a codified unit of measurement, but it is a unit of measurement. Dude, take that page to an art class or something, and ask how she'd look as a real human or if she's at all anatomically consistent. I know the answer you'll get. Hell, take it to an art subreddit and see what you get. Most of the other characters in the manga look like actual humans and wouldn't look deformed if remade in 3 dimensions, she would. You're clearly much more heated over this than I.

@kindaguy we know we are talking about drawing skills here, well at first we were shitposting, then yesterday i had to stop joking.

@Yautja it is a 2D drawing to translate it onto 3D you will need an entire different set of tools, counting heads no longer helps you for that, and the comparison is pretty much impossible, because just from the basics, deep is made in this case (for a 2D drawing) by shadowing, volume is an illusion is not a product of solid geometry, and this drawing doesn't has any of that, it is a flat drawing, that's a valid critique to be made of the drawing, but it doesn't means she is deformed for having no shadowing, so to extrapolate it onto a 3D field there are a lot of things missing here, a lot.

Unlike the 3D idea, her arms and legs, that we can measure using the very tools given to us by the drawing itself, and indeed she has about half a head thinner arms than she should, does that break the drawing? no. Why if it is a mistake? because not even you who didn't like the drawing noticed that, until recently you were instead focusing on her tits and ass which do have an appropriate measurement.

The first picture is of a fit woman and is used to illustrate how head count is used for measurement, and i already explained how it should be adapted for wider bodies, but i digress, because the first drawing specifically illustrates how to measure height, you would need another head schematic to talk about shoulder hip ratio, which that drawing doesn't shows.

Because those are not units of measurement, it is nonsense, it is talking out of your ass and it proves nothing at all, and the 3D is on the same boat is forced bullshit, which is why i had to leave the memes aside, because you just went too far on the department of basic common knowledge, i don't think it should be right for me to keep memeing it up after finding out that you really didn't knew how that work.

lmfao she's not even real, incels

@Doomroar
And volume is why I said she doesn't look like a real person. Turn her into 3D and she'd look like even more of a monster. The parts of her body I mentioned are far too thin in comparison to the rest which doesn't just look "thick" or plain overweight but inhuman, especially in 3D, which is exactly what I mentioned the famous train wrecks that I did.

I didn't say there is a strict ratio, but a general ratio that she blows past.

Those three pictures really seem to be going against your arguments that she isn't a disproportionate monster, especially the first one. You're getting angry that I used other parts of her body as measurements, or mentioned what she'd look like in 3D and I keep telling you, that's because the body follows a general ratio and she'd look like a monster as a real person, let alone a drawing. It's a specific measurement that is perfect for her.

I thought you were joking, but good lord are you getting defensive over this.

@Yautja sure... volume... on a 2D drawing.... so you are telling me that we talked this much, for the spam of what is soon to be a week now, and you didn't even knew the basis behind the idea of head counting to draw body proportions?



And still you have the nerve to go and talk shit about the drawings of someone else? without even knowing that? head counting to draw body proportions, requires, demands that the head is used as a sheet of plank wood.

Also the ratio that the human body follows is not strict, there's no such thing as a golden ratio for the human body, that's just an idealization if not a fetish, that among other things changes with the culture, for the Greeks women had small breast and a modest hip, but for the Europeans of the 1700 - 1800 women had to have wide hips and medium sized breast, with an extreme thin waist line, however on the 70s women had to be extremely thin with no ass whatsoever, and from the late 80s that changed to more curvaceous aesthetic which made the business of plastic surgery boom, and nowadays we are on the era of Thicc, but that's a discussion to have with someone that should understand at least the basics and you are clearly not there, that ratio of yours is all in your head.

BTW just to inform you, at this point it is more like educate you, making the neck or legs longer to accommodate her breast would actually make her look odd, instead to keep her proportionate they should be drawn wider, which they are, about half a head (horizontal) wider, and that measurement is not made with the volume of a head, it is made with the exact same "sheet of plank wood"



And while i am at it, her neck is measured within the first half of her chest, so that is one head, however since she has big breast it is completely fine to stick half a head more in her chest, that half a head extra (vertical) would go on the second half of her chest because breast drop, however she is wearing a bra, so her breast instead of going lower should stack and come upfront, that is half a head horizontally, which is what is already being done, more over she is supposed to be fat, so that is bound to increase her size even more.

So... holly fucking shit man, what the fuck does volume has to do with this at all?! this is baffling, how can you get even worse than closed hands measurement? now i am curios to read what other bullshit you pull off, this is gold, no wonder you were using the "badly" drawn hands as a measurement unit.

Oh i forgot, yes, hands are also measured in heads



Which is why i said:


I have to confess you have me hooked on this, i was sure we had reached peak nonsense yesterday so i was convinced that there was nothing much here to see, i was sure this was pretty much done with, but man, this is almost next level.

@Doomroar
Except a head has far more volume than a face. A head is like a ball, a face is a like a sheet or plank of wood.

Because that shit is so damn small compared to her body. She's disproportionate as fuck, boi. It's badly drawn in that it's an anatomic mess, not that it's objectively 'ugly'. I'm using it because a human body follows a general ratio, a ratio that her body picks and chooses when to follow.

You are done.

@Yautja her face is the bigger part of her head, with her hair barely occupying any space, the change is minimal.

And now we are talking about her neck? this is incredibly forced, and if her hands are badly drawn (which i don't think they are, but anyway), then why, why even try, why even damn try in the first place to even suggest using them as a unit o measure? closed fingers or otherwise, what would be the point of using badly drawn hands to measure the body proportions of the rest of the drawing even be?

I am done.

@Doomroar
Nah boi, I used her head, not her face. A head is a lot bigger than a face.

Nah boi, you seen those hands? The neck? The lower half of the legs? She be Chernobyl.

Nah boi, yours is. You're probably looking through the a fun house lens and that's why she seems normal to you. And yer literally the only one defending.

@Yautja an spread out hand is roughly the same size of a face, which i already used as a comparison, so i guess that point is done with.

And i am telling you she does, she is big everywhere, and using her own face as a comparison her breast and ass are just about half a face bigger.

Nope, your vision is skewered, literally the only person here complaining.

@Doomroar
Fine, try and take one completely spread out hand for each pair and try an replicate that shit. Two closed hands = one open hand, and that's generous. Good luck. Still ridiculously deformed.

Bitch, if she's natural, nothing is fake. She ain't comparable to real women, she got no anatomical consistency. If PG.22 was how her body was depicted consistently, she'd be overweight and fake, but it ain't, so she just fake.

Reality don't break my assumption, she breaks reality. It damn well is the artist's fault for making her look like an inverted bobble head caricature. Faker than a flat earth.

@Yautja you know i dare you to find anyone in the history of humanity other than yourself that uses curled fingers as an unit of measurement, you were better sticking to heads even if that failed, at least that had intellectual integrity to it.

So you just gonna ignore the database full of women with big natural tits and asses? really now? you just going to literally look away, not even make an attempt.

The whole point of the link is for you to compare her body to other real women, but this is beyond obstinate, you know there's a material on that page for all kind of arguments, for example a bunch are obese, others are fat, others are chubby, and some somehow don't have much of a belly (probably the result of liposuction), it is a great showcase of body type variety with the common link being big breast.

The point is, remains, and always was, just because reality breaks your assumption doesn't means you should look away and then blame it on the artist and call his drawings unrealistic when there's easy access to information showing otherwise.